Attorney Michael de Broglio on: South Africa, Law, Politics, Attorneys, Sport, Photography, Technology, Gadgets, Media, Crime, Road Accidents Fund,
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I have written before about the labour laws in South Africa which I think are one of the many reasons that most big international companies don’t want to become involved in doing business in South Africa and the experiences of Walmart are certainly not going to impress any other major foreign investors.
The one thing that trigger happy employees forget, when rushing off to labour consultants and people who just ultimately want a share of any compensation that they may or may not get, is that it has a major impact on their future. A CV with gaps in it does not get you a job anywhere because it says you are hiding something and a CV that details a company that you worked for leads to that firm being called about how you work. I had reason the other day to phone a company, to ask for a reference on somebody and was told, “I really don’t want to discuss her at all, the last time I saw her was at the CCMA …”. As an employer, that does not just set off alarm bells, but it is pretty much the funeral of that particular person’s prospects of working with you.
In my own experience, good and competent employees have no trouble in moving from one firm to another, and while there are rare exceptions, and I am personally not interested in them, or hearing them as is the case with most prospective employers, the kind of people that generally go to the CCMA are either very difficult or very poor employees and once I hear that somebody has been involved in disputes with their previous employer, I am simply not interested in hiring them at all. I certainly didn't this time either.
Posted by Michael de Broglio on Wednesday 02-May-12
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Comments
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No thanks said:
on Friday 20-Aug-21 03:33 PM
You don't sound like the kind of person any honest person should take advice from!
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magdeline said:
on Thursday 26-Mar-20 12:41 PM
what are termination regulations interms of amended labour relation act
Bruce said:
on Tuesday 13-Aug-19 10:27 AM
I am concerned that two of my recent employers are giving me bad references, the agents i speak to say they are not allowed for tell in they are or not, this seems unfair.
If they are, I certainly have the right to know don't
Bruce said:
on Tuesday 13-Aug-19 10:25 AM
I am concerned that two of my recent employers are giving me bad references, the agents i speak to say they are not allowed for tell in they are or not, this seems unfair.
If they are, I certainly have the right to know don't I?
Bruce said:
on Tuesday 13-Aug-19 10:23 AM
I am concerned that two of my recent employers are giving me bad references, the agents i speak to say they are not allowed for tell in they are or not, this seems unfair.
If they are, I certainly have the right to know don't I?
Bruce said:
on Tuesday 13-Aug-19 10:23 AM
I am concerned that two of my recent employers are giving me bad references, the agents i speak to say they are not allowed for tell in they are or not, this seems unfair.
If they are, I certainly have the right to know don't I?
Joe said:
on Wednesday 13-Feb-19 04:24 PM
I see it's an old article and me blabbing wouldn't change much. All I can say is, if that's your attitude don't even call me for an interview, I wouldn't want to work for someone like you.
Carly said:
on Monday 28-Jan-19 01:58 PM
Your article is a shocker, WOW! Very disappointing, who says the employer is always right! There are many companies that mistreat people. As a woman in a man's industry, woman are easily taken advantage of. I myself could have taken a particular company to the CCMA for sexual harassment, in the work place but did not because of the fear of being victimized, Your article is a good indication that I was very right in never do so, otherwise I would have become a "DIFFICULT OR VERY POOR EMPLOYEE" according to your standards.
Gary said:
on Tuesday 04-Sep-18 11:22 AM
I always come and read your opinion and texts. I am so hurt and shocked at the same time that a legal practitioner like you would speak and write something like this about people who go to the CCMA for help. As a legal student im not even close to being successful as you but what you expressing here is shocking coming from you sir. Its certainly not the way you speak - as caring lawyer in your adverts.
amanda Moco said:
on Tuesday 21-Aug-18 02:49 PM
If the employee went to CCMA won the case got the job back, was then demoted on 5 occasions and 3 yrs later he left after a 4 year employment with said company.
He was driven to leave, but yet the company still destroys any other opportunity that he might have .
The person has been to several interviews and lost job opportunity, due to the ex employer bad mouthing him ...they accused him of not doing his job so they demoted him 5x this is the reference given.and that he runs to CCMA ......how fair is that
Valerie Smith said:
on Tuesday 30-Jan-18 10:37 AM
As a recruitment consultant I am shocked. How can you judge someone by the mere fact that they have taken an employer to the CCMA! In the many years that I have been doing recruitment I have come across people that have been unfairly dismissed and have taken their employer to the CCMA and have in fact had a legitimate case and have won. Surely you should have the facts before making judgement
Moses Geduld said:
on Friday 26-Jan-18 03:55 PM
I can not get my dream job because my previouse employer giving me bad reference what do I do please advise.
Moses Geduld cell 079 146 0302
Audi said:
on Tuesday 17-May-16 04:37 PM
The Labour Relations Act regulates all compliance relative to whether Fair procedure and substance prevailed in the Dismissal process. The CCMA is an adjudication Authority ensuring the required fairness and is established to serve both employer and employee in terms of various protections enacted in Law. Caselaw at CCMA reveals that its function is extremely important as a larger majority of cases favour the disgruntled ex employees. Disciplinary management are capacity skills rather left to expert advice with regard to dismissal as a sanction because even where you have put to practice the requirement of fairness, an unreasonable dismissal may still prevail before a commissioner or arbitrator. It is very concerning that penalty must fit the crime is not properly considered and most hearing outcomes simply culminate in a dismissal. The institution of discipline should foremost be to correct deviant conduct and only where appropriate should dismissal abound. The secret to the success of a no dispute dismissal is knowledge to engage in this arena. Thank you for reading Audi
ZOE said:
on Monday 11-Jan-16 02:26 PM
Not all CCMA cases are due to dismissals. If an employer wants you out of their company, they will v take you out procedurally or unprocedurally due to collusion and connections.
Not all employers want the best for their employees.Especially if your boss hates you and wants you to resign. One is then left with a choice of CCMA or abuse to resign work situation.
Tau said:
on Monday 06-Jul-15 06:22 PM
To those who say "GOOD" employees should not take their former employers to the CCMA.
Are you saying that it is ok that employers/managers can just fire people willy nilly just because they dont like them .You are fired because I do not like you??? Really?
Vivienne said:
on Monday 23-Mar-15 01:19 PM
Hi,
We have an incident where an employee was dismissed, CCMA found the dismissal to be proceduraly and substantively unfair. The Manager than provides a reference indiacting the fact that the employee was dismissed and why but that the employee won the case at the CCMA. The employee apparently did not get the job. The employee now threatens to go back to the CCMA with a case of defarmation. Advise please: Was the manager wrong to be honest and does the ex employee have a case?
AB said:
on Monday 14-Oct-13 02:59 PM
I Suspect that most of responses here are from employers. CCMA is neutral unlike people who chair internal hearings who often represent employers interest. Nothing wrong with going to the CCMA, if as employer you had reasons enough to dismiss the employer go prove it at CCMA, You should be ashamed if you loose cause it means u either failed to follow the procedure or you fired the employee for stupid reasons.
I was target for dismissal from first few months of employment, I did a great job, improved the company's finance and ensure we the company had enough money to run, but the morons fired me for something that had nothing to do with my duties and they never even appreciated improvements I made. . .now you say I should just pack n go? No I am going to CCMA so next time they know how to treat people. and by the way I even got another job.
LINDY said:
on Thursday 20-Jun-13 11:03 PM
I left work in 2011 after being involved in an accident and got a broken wrist, cuts on my fore head and legs. My employer was making me work and did not give me and sick leave. In January 2011 my 23yr old son who was finishing hi s B.Com degree at Wits University, got robbed and injured and was in coma for almost 3 months. While i was going to see him at the hospital, i had an accident and broke my wrist but i was made to work with one hand. I took so long to look for advice because i'm still confused by my son's death and i am trying to have the culprits arrested. Did my employer did the right thing by making me work with a broken hand?
Cassia said:
on Monday 29-Apr-13 12:05 PM
Well since I have come across this post now, CCMA is there for employees who have been treated unfairly. Some employers cover there a## so well especially if they have researched it. Especially when its a lawyer who is taken for unfair dismissal to the CCMA. But then again no one is above God, and karma is a b@%&*
Sally-Ann said:
on Monday 01-Oct-12 09:13 AM
Short of asking the CCMA for advice, perhaps I could get it here. I resigned from a company on good terms, although my employer was extremely unhappy at the fact that I was leaving and tried to persuade me to stay. I have had no contact with this company for over a year. I have recently started looking for employment and have found that my ex employer is slandering my name, with absolutely no grounds to stand on. What are my rights with regards to references?? I don't want to remove this from my CV, as there is no reason to and it would look very bad as a gap on my CV...thanks Sally
Safia said:
on Thursday 03-May-12 01:14 PM
I agree with some people here saying competent people very seldom are not appreciated by the bosses and "thrown out" unfairly , in fact they are busy building their careers and often get snatched by other companies , especially overseas companies . I think people go to CCMA because they have bitter taste in the mouth over being fired . In their mind they think it is a revenge . And then karma will turn around and will bite them on the bum . CV with any mention of CCMA is a bad idea !
Robyn said:
on Thursday 03-May-12 10:24 AM
I agree with most comments made here. Not much extra to say. Personally I will not be one who runs to the CCMA, the situation has to be really really bad and unfair for me to do that. I agree that running to the CCMA is bad taste - depending on the situation of course - and let's face it, most people going to the CCMA are people who try and get whatever they can out their petty situations.
liesl said:
on Thursday 03-May-12 09:58 AM
I have worked with some questionable employees but on the same account seen companies abuse their power. I think one should not place all situations in a box and accept that sometimes every exception has it's own rules and that every situation should be judged by the merits of its own facts
Megan said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 05:59 PM
I agree with the vast majority of the comments barring one or two rather ignorant closed minded ones. Like every system in every country if it is abused it reflects poorly on both parties employer & employee.
Louise said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 05:10 PM
You run to CCMA because deep down you know you are a loser and being greedy but you want that extra money you can squeeze out . IF you are a hardworking person you will have pride and even if you think you have been dismissed unfairly you will prove with your success that it is your ex employer who is the real loser by losing such a competent person like you . CCMA is for people who milk the silly labour laws of this country . Have you not noticed that other countries do not open factories here , do not give jobs to south africans , they want our minerals and gold but they do not want our lazy people with their huge sense of entitlement . Louise
Daniela said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 03:39 PM
I do agree with what you have written, Michael. But then the real issue is whether the dismissal has been just or unjust.
If the dismissal has been unjust, the employee sits without a job and obviously loses income, so they then pursue the CCMA route and receive compensation. If they decide not to go this way, hopefully they can find employment timeously and the fact still remains that they were fired and that the employer can still make the employees life hell (in terms of a reference) even though the employee took the 'high road'.
It is a tough decision and I supoose a lot to think about before anyone makes any rash decisions.
It really is quite sad though, should it be an unfair dismissal and they employee does not pursue anything, then their rights - to a point - are being supressed.
Although, a valid point made by Michael, should it be a good employee, there shouldn't be any need for any of the above.
Michael de B said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 03:31 PM
The last person who took this firm to the CCMA got settled for nothing - after she was fired for chasing another employee in her car with her boyfriend, and then spraying some gas in her face! At the end of the day she was an unhappy, disgruntled lady, struggling with relationships at home and taking it out on people at work.
Thats pretty much my experience of the cailbre of the person who taken this firm to the CCMA - but then we treat people well and fairly so naturally we don't expect that.
Julie said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 03:24 PM
CCMA is not an approach I would concider unless it is very serious or should I really feel I have been dismissed unfairly. The few threats this company suffered from a few employees, were employees that I wouldn't want working at my firm. Besides being absolutely useless some even got violent.
Bianca said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 03:17 PM
I agree, gaps in a CV is extremely worrying and even if you were unemployed for a specific time I do think that it should at least be stated as that so that it does not raise questions. As for running to the CCMA, I do think that the proper approach would be to discuss your issues or problems directly with your employer before darting off to the CCMA. If you have taken the decent approach and discussed same and still the issues or problems have not been resolved, then yes but I do believe that you should never burn your bridges.
Henrietta said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 03:15 PM
I Agree with Brenda and Genevieve. And the sad thing is most people have too much pride meaning that in some cases the employer was wrong and the employee right, but it is the employer they phone for references and with too much pride an employer can harm the employee’s future just because they were proven wrong and can’t stand it. It is a win-lose situation. It is sad to thing that you had a problem and the employer can’t sort it out that you have to take the last and worst step which is CCMA and in the end your future will be harm just because you had to do something. But you do get the attention seekers.
Simone said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 03:13 PM
I have to agree with every single comment made here.
The only problem I have here is that you get some employers where they treat their employees extremely bad. It is hard decision whether to put this "reference" on your CV or not...
I've had a friend who started working at a company where they did not even want to give her a contract whatsoever. When she said she wants one and kept asking for it they fired her.
But if you went to the CCMA for some petty reason, it would be your own sttupidity to put that reference on your CV.
Kalinke said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 03:12 PM
I do agree with you Michael, it defiantly doesn’t have a good sound if your pervious company said stuff like “ I don’t even to talk about her because the last I saw her were at the CCMA, but I also agree with Genevieve, there is companies that is fly by nights that deserve the CCMA on their backs
Shane said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 03:03 PM
Michael, as u say they basically get their punishment later if they are in the wrong. A few thousand extra now wont ever cover the damage they will suffer from burning bridges in Johannesburg. The CCMA should be for serious cases involving bad companies - not for people who got plenty warnings and then had to be fired because they were useless.
J said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 02:58 PM
Competent people never have a problem getting jobs - its the incompetent, lazy and rude who don't survive at normal companies.
Brenda said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 02:38 PM
An employer will always make it sound as if an employee is wrong in running to the CCMA irrespective of what the circumstances were. I do agree that in some cases, employees run to the CCMA with really pathetic motives but i also believe that quite a few cases are real and justified. It is really just a case of reasonable doubt. I can think of a lot of valid reasons that would justify one laying a complaint against a company at the CCMA, so we cant always think that that person is difficult or a weak employee.
Unfortunately, in today's times, with jobs being so scarce for many people, it seems like the easiest thing to do after being dismissed, is to try and justify yourself as an unemployed person and try and get some sort of compensation for it, and that is what i do not agree with at all.
People need to realise that wherever you go, and whatever you do, it is not easy in the working world. People need to grow up and realise that your job is not a bed of roses and there will be many days where you will feel that you are being picked on etc. Its life!!
Genevieve said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 02:29 PM
I think if you are one to take every employer to the CCMA, the above is true. However there are some cases where the employer needs to be confronted, and the CCMA is the last option that an employee has. Employee's have rights and if an employer dispose of those rights, it does not make the employee very difficult or places them under the "poor employee" label.
Lucretia said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 02:27 PM
I have seen an employer work in its own favour to get rid of an employee after 30 years of service there. Forcing the employee to sign a contract that would insist they would not go to the CCMA. Surely the same is then true for lousy employers. Not all CCMA cases are as a result of questionable employees.......
Alexis said:
on Wednesday 02-May-12 02:24 PM
It is very true regarding running to the CCMA. It will be very hard to get emplyment if you have taken a company to the CCMA before
Johannesburg based attorney specializing in personal injury matters including Road Accident Fund claims and medical negligence matters. My interests include golf, reading and the internet and the way it is constantly developing. I have a passion for life and a desire for less stress!
